Comment: Living conditions in some Chinese villages are very harsh. In some they do not even know what a toilet is. Like in old times it is just a hole, and that is it.

A young man who grew up in a village became a millionaire and decided to help his fellow villagers. He built houses with warm toilets and bathrooms for them. Something unexpected occurred. People began quarreling over who was entitled to real estate and who was not. Moreover, they started demanding bigger houses from the businessman, since their families had grown. The millionaire did not expect this and almost fell into depression.

My Response: He simply did not understand that human egoism is structured a little differently. It is such a disappointment.

Question: Can people really not suddenly calm down at some point, get a house, a warm toilet, and live like that?

Answer: No, because existence determines consciousness. You corrected their living and thereby changed their consciousness. Their consciousness became a thousand egoistic levels greater, and that is it—people can no longer cope with it, and now they will gnaw at each other, and kill each other.

Question: So the millionaire let the devil out of the box?

Answer: Yes. People will now go to court: this one’s toilet is warmer, that one’s bathtub is bigger, and so on.

Question: So they lived calmly in harsh conditions and they lived their lives that way?

Answer: You cannot even imagine how harsh those conditions are! Even in Beijing itself I saw horrible little rooms! A person sleeps on a bed that is directly on the ground. And it is cold there in winter. In continental China, the cold is like in Siberia. In the room there is a small TV set, a bed on the floor, and a little bag with something, maybe vegetables. And that is everything he has.

Question: So the conclusion is that one should not change the conditions that are familiar to a person?

Answer: Under no circumstances! Conditions must be changed very carefully, only to the extent of the population’s development and only to the extent of a correct ideology.

Question: So such a leap should not be made?

Answer: It must not. According to Kabbalah, progress must go hand in hand with education, with inner consciousness. Otherwise, nothing good will come of it. In the end, they will invent atomic bombs. So what if everyone has bread? They will feel even more unhappy.

Question: How can a person be prepared for this transition so that he receives a bathroom, a warm toilet, and good conditions?

Answer: Why does he need this? In order to start looking askance at his neighbor? If he felt his existence as normal and accepted life as it was, why would he need more? And now his wife demands a wardrobe! The closet is bursting with clothes, but she needs more; so now you need to buy a second closet.

Question: So the story of the goldfish is always relevant?

Answer: Absolutely. Only the development of a person’s should determine one’s material status.

Question: Get us out of this impasse. How can a person live well and happily? What is needed for this? You said that progress is not needed for a person to be happy.

Answer: Not at all. Humanity has been given more or less normal conditions, and in 100 years the world’s population has increased from two billion at the beginning of the 20^th century to eight billion at the beginning of the 21^st century. And what will happen next? Although they say that now this is already beginning to decline. But why is it decreasing? Because people do not want to reproduce further; they think only about themselves: “I would rather create such conditions that I will be cared for, I will be buried, and everything will end with me; ‘Let there be a flood, I don’t need children.’”

Comment: People also justify this by saying that they do not want to give birth to children in this terrible world full of suffering.

My Response: They are not thinking about children! They are thinking about themselves. Why should I invest in children? In the past I had to do this because later the children would support me, take care of me, and I would be happy to see my grandchildren. And now this is gone. Egoism has grown. It does not need these grandchildren, it needs nothing. Until the last day of my life, I will be fine, and then they will bury me. I will pay now so that later I will be buried, and everything will be fine—that is it. Hospitals and funeral houses, that is all.

Question: Still progress exists. How can a person be happy today?

Answer: This progress is not good. It confuses a person, pushes him into some, forgive me, warm toilet, and the person exists in this warm toilet his entire life. He thinks this is a blessing. And besides this, he has nothing more. Nothing!

Question: Let us get back to the Chinese millionaire. How can things be done so that people feel good? Suppose he had such an intention. What should he have done? And in general, what should be done so that people feel good?

Answer: I would advise him to open schools. It is a village of, probably, twenty to thirty thousand people, no less. Give children the opportunity to study. “They have finished their school education? Yes. And now, I will build a university next to the school.”

Question: What should a child understand and feel in school?

Answer: He should learn to be an integral element in the world. That is, he should know nature, the world, how it turns, and how he should turn together with it in order to be an integral element connected with nature, without violating its harmony. This is what he should be taught in school, and then at the university as well. This is a long process.

Question: Is this the main thing, in your opinion?

Answer: Yes, because it is necessary to change a man.

Comment: So I change not the world, but, on the contrary, myself.

My Response: It is precisely education in the right environment that changes a person. And then we will see a completely different generation of, for example, of Chinese people.

Question: And what about the world? How can good be brought to the world?

Answer: In the same way, there is nothing else. Only education, and only to the extent that they are willing to accept it.

Question: Education toward the same integral person?

Answer: Of course. Absolutely!

Question: So that a person feels his or her connection with nature?

Answer: Yes, a person should feel it consciously, and understand that he must consciously move toward this. And this must be obligatorily instilled from early childhood.

Question: If, for example, we direct humanity onto such a path—integrality, mutual connection, understanding that it exists within nature—can progress then be built on this basis?

Answer: What is this progress?! When spaceships plow the expanses of the universe? What for?! All progress will be in relationships between people and in penetrating into the depths of integral nature. There a person will find everything. He does not need to leave his village. He soars in the universe! He understands and feels what is happening around him. Why should he leave the village to go somewhere to a neighboring city?

Question: Does a person feel that he is truly happy then?

Answer: Of course! He understands where he exists, what he lives for, who created him, for what purpose, and how he fulfilled this purpose, how with its help he revealed the universe for himself. He feels it in a complete way. He has no problems at all, not even the transition from life to death. He feels himself eternal, perfect—like that what he attains. What could be better? And this is instead of becoming a modern city-dwelling Chinese person! You must provide a person with inner comfort! You will not be able to provide him with external comfort anyway!

Question: Is this the main progress—to provide inner comfort to a person?

Answer: Yes. Because in external comfort everyone will only look at one another.

Inner comfort is when everyone achieves balance with himself, with nature, and with the Creator. Then nothing is frightening to him. This is what every person wants. And by providing someone with corporeal things more or less, you will only generate revolutions, squabbles, and so on.

In short, the millionaire has made a mistake.
[259715]
From KabTV’s “News with Dr. Michael Laitman,” 1/29/20

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How can I trust myself? I am entirely in the hands of the Creator, and suddenly I am my own master?

Question: A person should not trust himself?

Answer: No. That is why it is said: “Do not believe in yourself until the day you die”

Question: What death are we talking about?

Answer: The death of the egoistic self. And who knows how much egoism is still within each of us?

Comment: So you think that these tests, which people undergo when win lottery tickets or earn millions on YouTube or TikTok.

My Response: That is misfortune!

Comment: So it is not happiness, not something to be grateful for, but rather something to beware of.

My Response: I ran away from it. And I had enough strength; God guided me so well, in general, to avoid all of that.

Question: But if it happens? Then at least it gives some way out, a little loophole. It happens that a talented person starts earning crazy money while young!

Answer: That is misfortune.

Question: But what should he do?

Answer: Nothing can be done. I do not think there is anything one can do against it.

I had such situations, but they were when I met strong, serious people who could tempt me with wealth and so on. No, I managed to keep safe. Of course, it was all the Creator who did it, but I tried to slip away.

Question: Is it a test? Is it how a person is brought along?

Answer: Yes! A person cannot live without boundaries; firm, rigid boundaries within which he exists. He cannot!

Question: And why does the Creator do this to a person?

Answer: To show an example to others through him. “Distribute your treasury to the homeless and set the slaves free.” This is Shota Rustaveli.

Comment: So, the conclusion is if a lot of money comes to you—run.

My Response: Yes.
[347481]
From KabTV’s “News with Dr. Michael Laitman,” 8/20/25

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Comment: Social networks love touching stories. Recently, there was a buzz with the story of a female soldier whose mother could not pay her electricity bills.

While traveling on a train the girl was explaining over the phone to the electric company employees that her mother is disabled, receives a small pension, and cannot pay for electricity until her pension money is deposited into her bank account. Crying, she asked that electricity not be cut off for her mother.

Suddenly, a man approached her, found out what was going on, called the electricity company, gave his credit card number so that 2,000 shekels could be withdrawn from his account to pay off the soldier’s mother’s debt, and then he disappeared. But someone managed to snap a photo of him. It turned out that he was a former military man.

My Response: Such extraordinary actions are very touching. We need more such insightful examples to encourage everyone toward kind interactions.

On the other hand, the electricity company’s policy is business, and there is nothing you can do about it. At the same time, it is necessary to consider that there are special consumers, such as pensioners, who should be treated differently, possibly through redistributing the burden among others.

Question: Do you like such stories?

Answer: No, I do not want these stories to be tearful exceptions to the rule. I want them to be consistently carried out in real life by a correct society that deliberately and systematically cares for all its citizens so that there would be no such cases that are good for a movie, but not for life.

There are still many such cases, but we do not hear about them.
[177958]
From KabTV’s “News with Dr. Michael Laitman” 2/21/16

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Comment: I lived normally, worked normally, was passionate about my job, and then suddenly, bam, I was empty. Suddenly, there is no point. There is work, there is a job, there is money, but I see no meaning in it.

Answer: This is natural. This is a person’s growth. This is gradual human development.

One’s egoism is no longer fulfilled. It is still the same egoism, which is our foundation. But there was a time when it was fulfilled; it enjoyed work, honor, fame, knowledge, money, the opportunity to somehow realize all this. And today, no. The opinion of others does not matter; climbing some ladder does not matter.

You could say there is a kind of fatigue, maybe like in any metal or material, it is the same here.

Comment: It is called “burnout.” There is even such a term.

Answer: “Burnout,” nicely said, yes.

Egoism has switched to the next operating mode. It is no longer enough for it that it is given everything, the things that used to bring satisfaction, fulfillment, the gratification of vanity, and so on. Now, it is not. What should I do? I don’t know why I should do anything. Why I should live or work? I don’t know! I am simply not interested in it at all.

There is just no satisfaction, no fulfillment, no saturation. Why work? Why live? There is no reason. That is it. Give me a pill, and that is it. People will get to this point!

Comment: Yes, I feel that they will, for sure.

Answer: Why not? It is a way out of suffering. I would like to forget and fall asleep.

Question: So you hand out the pill. You have now, let us say, brought us to this dead end. I even clearly feel that this will happen. I am almost certain it will. So what should a person do in such a situation? You keep saying that there will be such a universal cry.

Answer: Yes, but that cry is the awareness of the true desire to understand the meaning of life. In other words, why do I need all this?

To such an extent that even children, which is the most important thing for a person, and especially for a woman, will no longer bring joy.

You will have everything, absolutely everything, but you will not even be able to mechanically carry out your work or do something for them. Nothing! This is the real despair from the emptiness of the egoistic Kli.

Question: So when will deliverance come?

Answer: Deliverance from this state will come when there is an immense wail to the heavens, and humanity begins to understand why it really exists, and not before.

It is only when a true need arises to understand the meaning of life. We will live to see it!
[347076]
From KabTV’s “News with Dr. Michael Laitman,” 8/8/2025

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Comment: After surveying 1.7 million people across 164 countries, American psychologists determined how much money a person needs to feel happy. It turns out that there is a threshold of income beyond which the feeling of happiness starts to decline.

The ideal income for an individual is, on average, $60,000 to $75,000 per year. “Now we understand,” the researchers say, “that happiness has a limit.”

My Response: In reality, they are talking about the limit of happiness that money can buy. But happiness itself has no limit. One simply needs to properly balance “appetite” and “food” when there is happiness but just a little bit is missing. Then everything falls into place.

As for money, it is a tool to achieve goals in our material world. For a spiritual goal in the upper world, a different kind of money is needed. There money turns into a means of elevation, a means of bestowal. That is the true feeling of life.

A wealthy person in spirituality is the one who constantly has the opportunity to fill others to the extent of his connection with the Creator.
[224932]
From KabTV’s “News with Dr. Michael Laitman,” 8/27/24

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Question: People wonder why the most unnecessary things for a person, like diamonds and gold, are so highly valued?” And psychologists answer that it is precisely exclusive jewelry that can preserve one’s individuality in this world of universal globalization.

What does it mean for a person to possess something that others do not?

Answer: It is only because diamonds and gold are accepted by people as something that brings confidence, a treasure. But what exactly is this value? It exists only because people attribute these things to it and nothing more.

Question: In the besieged Leningrad, a piece of bread was a treasure. And that truly is a treasure. So, why do we need all these shiny trinkets?

Answer: To give value to life. That is all! But this will pass. I believe we will reach a state where completely different carriers of value will emerge.

In reality, the true carrier of value is the spiritual screen (Masach). This is what matters the most. It is eternal, it is a person’s personal spiritual attainment. No one can take it away, you cannot sell it or transfer it. It gives meaning to your existence, and most importantly, eternal life, the eternal threshold of eternal life.

Question: Then all these trinkets become just trinkets?

Answer: They will be worth nothing, just like everything else in our world. As soon as we begin to master the upper world, our money and material values will immediately be replaced by spiritual currency.

And spiritual currency is Kesef (Kisuf—covering) not the fulfillment of egoism but its covering above it, the Masach.

How will we measure it? It is individual.

How will we exchange it? It cannot be exchanged; it is only possible through connection with the Creator.

Thus, I am as rich as I am able to connect everyone to myself, enter into them, and fill them. Connection with others, fulfilling others—that is my wealth.

Where is my “treasure chest” that I fill? It is within everyone else. This is eternal, perfect, it never disappears. It is mine.

Question: What is most valuable in these relationships, the biggest diamond?

Answer: The quality with which I fill other people: Nefesh, Ruach, Neshama, Haya, Yechida. I do not fill myself, I only give. I am precisely the vessel of fulfillment. It is very interesting.

Question: What is the equivalent of gold, diamonds, or a simple trinket in spiritual relationships?

Answer: Power! Diamonds, gold, trinkets, whatever it may be, all represent power over others. If I am in a desert and there are no people on Earth, trinkets or gold give me nothing.

Power over others is wealth in our world. But power over oneself, which connects me to the Creator, is spiritual wealth.

Question: Is power over oneself control over one’s egoism?

Answer: Yes. That is, the screen.
[236841]
From KabTV’s “News with Dr. Michael Laitman” 8/26/24

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Comment: In 5 to 10 years, CEOs will have to focus on issues of happiness. The positions they will be hired for will have various names, such as “Dream Manager” or, conversely, “Destruction Manager.”

But the essence remains the same: a person who must constantly drive the company toward change, and in doing so, dismantle the established order.

My Response: We need to work proactively.

The thing is, a person must feel happy, or their work will yield little benefit. That is why we need to ensure that they feel happiness, fulfillment, and connection with others, because happiness depends entirely on the atmosphere they exist in.

They must feel they are in an environment of kindness and mutual support where they can completely rely on their company and team.

This is perhaps the most important thing. To achieve this, we must work with the team. We need to create a communal, positive dependency within the workplace where people feel support and inspiration from their colleagues, where they feel proud and understand the happiness they gain from being part of this team, where their spouses, children, or other family members also understand and approve of this. It means a great deal.

I believe that if we fail to create such an environment in the future, employees will not stay. Their productivity will drop, and they will become indifferent to the company’s fate. Ultimately, you will not be able to “buy” them, not even with money.

What matters is not just money, but the atmosphere of joy, happiness, flexibility, and mutual help they feel. This requires education, a completely different approach, and a new organization of production and hierarchy, nothing like what existed in the past.

A person is an individual being, and they must feel both unique and entirely supported by the collective when needed.

In relationships among people, everyone must be equal. These are relationships between individuals, not between citizens or employees.

But the most important thing is for people to have a shared, grand goal—why they are doing this and what they are achieving through it.

We need to gradually help a person feel that this methodology brings them to an absolute state—absolute happiness and a sense of something vast, eternal, and perfect. This allows them to see a completely different world and to shape themselves, their children, and their families in an entirely new way.

This must be done gradually. And then they will realize that it is not just the company playing nice to extract more productivity from them, but an effort to transform them into a master of life, to help them feel the integrity of existence.

Question: What should a CEO, who is a professional dreamer, be it a “Dream Manager” or a “Destruction Manager,” aspire to in their dreams? What should they want to destroy and what to build?

Answer: One cannot exist without the other. They must first present a dream, a direction, and explain what they aim to achieve so that everyone begins to connect with this dream and embrace it as a truly desirable state. Then after having deeply understood its necessity, they would be ready to destroy the present for the sake of a bright future.
[232130]
From KabTV’s “News with Dr. Michael Laitman” 8/17/18

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Question: What is money? What is striving toward a goal? How can one change habits? What does Kabbalah say about this?

Answer: It is very simple. Money (Kesef) is a covering. “Kesef” comes from the word “Kisuf,” which means covering, that is, a covering over my desires.

Money is not just paper or something stored in a bank. If I can cover my desires and aspirations for what I want with a screen, it is considered that I pay for my desires. Through this covering, I can rise above them from the desire to receive to the desire to bestow, and thereby achieve any fulfillment according to the strength of my desire.

Question: With money, I can satisfy my desires. But what does it mean to cover desires with a screen?

Answer: To cover means that a desire is truly fulfilled only by its covering, which is the transformation of the intention behind the desire from oneself to others.

If we want to earn correctly, to truly earn life, then we need to understand what money is, what covering means, and what the transformation of intention is. It is about a screen that covers egoistic desires and transforms them into altruistic ones, and in this altruistic light, we begin to receive upper fulfillments. This is true wealth.

Question: Do a person’s thoughts shape their life?

Answer: In general, yes.

Question: What are thoughts, and how can one change the course of thoughts to shape and improve life?

Answer: A person’s thoughts shape their life, meaning their attitude toward who they are, what they are, what surrounds them, and their purpose. All of these are called their thoughts.

One must answer questions such as: “Why do I exist? What is happening to me? How will my life end?” Initially, these questions may arise purely in an egoistic form, but one must start answering them. They must understand that if they focus only on satisfying their egoism, they will end up in portions and eventually finish the same way. And then what? Until they die. Because our physiological, animalistic body defines our life.

If I want to rise to the next level, to exist not in the animalistic body, but in the spiritual one, I need to rise and begin to exist according to entirely different values, not to fill my physical body and see that as the purpose of life, but to fill myself with qualities of bestowal and love, qualities that resemble the Creator. This is a completely different value system.

Here, a person faces a significant challenge. It feels as if they are in a vast field meant for them to explore asking why, for what purpose, and how to break away from past values, from wealth, money, notions of happiness, and egoistic success. They must begin to reposition themselves entirely differently regarding their existence.

Question: “We are slaves to our habits. Change your habits, and your life will change.” But what should we change them to?

Answer: They need to be replaced with some kind of spiritual actions and relationships. First, I must study them, understand where they come from, how they form, and how I can make these changes.

Question: What are truly good habits for a person?

Answer: There are no good habits. A habit, by its nature, cannot be good. Habits are always bad.

What can be good is when we rise from one positive action to an even greater positive action. But that is not a habit; it goes against our habits. This requires great effort and work on oneself.

Question: But for this, we need to have a distant goal to consistently overcome our habits, right?

Answer: Yes. In addition to having a distant goal, you also need a small group in which you can implement this.

Comment: “The main obstacles in life are self-doubt and fear. Our doubts paralyze us.”

My Response: Our doubts and fears drive us forward, and these are very good qualities of our nature.

Without doubts and fears, we would not move anywhere. We would dig into our current situation trying to minimize the feeling of evil and barely experience any good just to avoid triggering doubts and fears.
Let doubts and fears arise! Let them push and pressure us forward!

If I am in the right environment, all my doubts and fears will be directed correctly in my interactions with that environment, and together we will move forward. Nothing in nature is created in vain! Under no circumstances should we diminish, suppress, or erase anything!

Comment: “Goals should be clear, simple, and written down.”

My Response: A person who is truly developing has no clarity. They are constantly in turmoil and engaged in clarifications. As soon as they resolve something, new turmoil immediately arises.

A true human being is constantly in a state of turmoil and clarification, turmoil and clarification. Greater and greater desires, doubts, and thoughts arise in them. They continually ask themselves: “How can I truly find the purpose of life? What is worth living for?”

Comment: In one of your talks, you drew a coordinate system where a person moves along a sinusoid line, progressing toward the goal through increasing ruptures. I shared this example with a friend, and she said: “So do we have to hit rock bottom to rise again?”

My Response: Yes, of course! Even the greatest Kabbalists, before reaching complete correction, find themselves at the lowest point! Absolutely!

Question: What lifts a person from this rock bottom?

Answer: The environment and the upper light that one receives through it.

Comment: And here is one of the latest quotes: “Find the courage to go against the flow and get rich.”

My Response: This means going against egoism. It is possible. But keep in mind that you are weak, that you cannot do it alone! There is no need to fight stubbornly and go against everything if you are on your own.

You must build a system that will help you reach the goal. It should be a system within a group of like-minded people who have a clear goal. Only together, by constantly strengthening their connection, can they achieve the goal.

Comment: To conclude: “Poor, unlucky, unhappy, and unhealthy is the person who often uses the word ‘tomorrow’.”

My Response: Yes, of course. We have no right to postpone anything until tomorrow.

But that is not the only issue. Weakness is not just about procrastination. Weakness is in closing your eyes and refusing to connect with others.

To delay until tomorrow or not? The problem lies in this: all human actions depend on their interaction with others. If a person is in the right environment, they will not postpone anything until tomorrow. They will not even delay today, they will act immediately. The environment will compel them to move.

The most important thing is to establish the right connection with the right environment. There must be a group. Only then will they progress. The group determines everything. Find the right group, and you will find happiness.
[247423]
From KabTV’s “News with Dr. Michael Laitman” 6/3/19

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The world must not be corrected in religious matters before economic correction is guaranteed for the entire world (Baal HaSulam, The Writings of the Last Generation).

A state that decides to adopt an altruistic system must understand what to do and how to influence its citizens, i.e., how to adjust itself in one direction or another in order to demonstrate the desired path to everyone through this variation.

Baal Sulam emphasizes that this economic component is so important that it will become the foundation without which it is impossible to move forward in ethical principles.

As a result, until a person reaches a certain economic condition, he will not be able to think about spiritual matters, as his material needs will occupy his concerns.
[333364]
From KabTV’s “Era of the Last Generation” 8/8/24

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In the News (NPR):

“On March 27, 2013, John Sweeney, a plumber from Ireland, started a Facebook page called Suspended Coffees. His message was simple: Buy a cup of coffee for a stranger, because an act of kindness can change a life. Eight hours later, the page had attracted more than 20,000 likes.

“Suspended coffee, or caffe sospeso, is a tradition that comes from Naples, Italy, and dates to at least the turn of the 20th century. When customers buy coffee, they also pay in advance for a cup to be given to somebody else — usually someone who otherwise couldn’t afford it. …

“One challenge to making kindness through coffee a staple of American culture is that ‘we’re a society that isn’t very comfortable, culturally, with asking for help,’

Question: Is it possible to come up with such harmony for humanity so that those who have money and opportunity would present something without their names and others would use it without humiliating themselves at the request? Would it bring us closer to harmony or not?

Answer: Partially, yes.

Question: What is the most important element here? That it is offered up and is anonymous?

Answer: That is natural, no last names, nothing. Neither who gives nor who receives. That is how everything exists incognito.

Question: Is there harmony in this?

Answer: Sure.

Question: Does the fact that I give something of mine away without demanding anything in return make the world warmer, better?

Answer: Partially. Our egoism will not allow us to do this every day. You can do this for a week or so but not all the time.

Question: So it cannot be a process of upbringing that leads to this and we would live like this all the time?

Answer: No.

Question: There must be ups and downs?

Answer: Otherwise it will be like some kind of tax and so on.

Question: It would no longer be an effort?

Answer: Yes, and there must be an effort.

Question: It is clear that this is a process of education more for someone who suspends, that is, for a rich person. And for the one who accepts, what is here? Is there any kind of upbringing for him?

Answer: He must understand that someone has thought of him. And therefore, when he gets the same opportunity, he will have to do it too.

Question: It is beautiful! Is a mutual upbringing process taking place?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Is it possible to do this?

Answer: This is a mutual agreement. This can, of course, be done.

It is possible to come to this through education. A person becomes educated and then it becomes a habit. And he thinks about it, does not forget, and does it. Or it could be under pressure, like some kind of tax.

But there is no other way because egoism in us is constantly growing and requires that we feed it.

Question: So a person will somehow adapt to these efforts?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Can we say what the final way to harmony is?

Answer: The final approach to harmony is when we do not feel our egoism would force us to do something. It is when we rise above it and are truly free. This is, of course, aerobatics! But it will happen.

Question: You slowly lead into a mini-dead-end, and then suddenly you say: “But it will be.” Do you want to calm us down or will it happen?

Answer: I am sure this will happen, and humanity must come to this. It is written in our genes.
[330496]
From KabTV’s “News with Dr. Michael Laitman” 5/13/24

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