Comment: Today the state of the world is such that the Creator, the Creator, who created this entire universe, increasingly seems to need a lawyer. Why did He create this? Why did He do this? I have divided the entire history of human relations into ten stages and would very much like you to act as a lawyer. Or in the role of the Creator: Why did You create this? How did it all happen?
Chapter One—The Primitive World
Question: Let’s start with the primitive world. We are interested in examining relationships that have already arisen. Everyone lived as one family. I killed a mammoth and brought it to the fire; everyone ate and everything was very good. There were simple relationships, and there were simple concerns. They lived, and it didn’t matter how long they lived. They didn’t bother with high philosophy. Man and nature—what could be better?
Tell me, please, how did nations appear with their own characters, with their own territory and borders? What was the Creator’s intention?
Answer: The Creator’s intention was to bring humanity to a state where it consisted of many opposing peoples, distant from each other internally and externally, so that they would begin to gradually realize as they developed that they needed to overcome their animal nature.
Question: Is it more comfortable for you, perhaps, to speak from the Creator?
Answer: I can speak from the Creator. I need to raise creation to the level of the Creator.
Question: Is this Your thought, the Creator’s thought?
Answer: This is my thought. And this was done gradually so that people would begin to realize themselves and their opposition to the correct nature and coexistence with each other.
Question: So you created these good “children” who sat around the fire, and everything was fine with them, more or less normal, man and nature. And you wanted to set them apart, right?
Answer: Yes. So that they confronted their nature, so that they counteracted it.
Question: What was their nature?
Answer: An egoistic nature.
Question: These people sitting around a campfire?
Answer: Yes. Little by little they tried to overcome each other, to resist, and to fight. What is mine is mine, and yours is yours.
Question: Did you introduce all this? You, the Creator? Intentionally?
Answer: Yes.
Chapter Two—Wars
Question: Nations, borders, character, clothing, music—differences appeared. In general, all this appeared. And wars.
Again, You, the Creator, why did You pit the nations against each other? Was it impossible to live within borders? We have already separated them. Why was it necessary to bring peoples and countries together?
Answer: It didn’t all start with nations. It started with wild animals, with all kinds of bugs, cockroaches, everything.
Question: Did you also put these wars in them?
Answer: Of course! Into all living things! Every living thing must fight for its life.
Question: Why did you decide that it should be this way?
Answer: Egoism was growing. This is mine-mine, yours-yours. And then mine is mine and yours is mine. And thus development continued. Wars, countries, walls, and fortifications arose. I take everything from you. And from here egoism continued to develop within a different framework.
Question: What was your plan? Was this how to pit nations together, destroy borders, and so on?
Answer: It was so that they would consciously make sure that they could not be against each other. So that they would come to the conclusion that they must coexist in peace and unite with each other. And this must be achieved through increasing egoism.
Question: Was it impossible to immediately determine this point?
Answer: No, you can’t. Otherwise you won’t have an equilibrium system. You need one and the other, two opposing forces. And the person between these two forces would have to control them.
Comment: That is, You, as the Creator, placed man as a yo-yo. The toy that moves up and down.
My Response: No, not a yo-yo! A person must always choose for himself the highest level, which is the overcoming of altruism over egoism.
Chapter Three—Strange People
Question: Wars, showdowns, and deaths began. Things went well; history started unrolling. And at this moment 4,000 years ago, the Creator, that is, you, decide that another nation should appear in the world. Another nation whose fate was determined from the very beginning. Subsequently, this nation will be called Hebrews, Israelites, the Jews.
Tell us about this plan of yours, the plan of the Creator. Why is there suddenly a need for this nation?
Answer: A group must appear that would understand that it is imperative to prefer peace to war.
Question: But it was possible to take some kind of people because nations already existed at that time. Was it possible to identify these people?
Answer: They all existed in continuous wars. It was necessary to find some people who would realize that other principles of human existence are possible in the struggle over hatred in oneself and toward others, without wars.
Question: So there is hatred toward others?
Answer: Yes, it is natural. And in this case, by rising above this hatred, nations would develop by looking at this nation. Therefore, a nation appeared that should have been an example.
Question: So there are nations that arose in the territories thanks to language, geography, and so on. Are you now talking about a nation that arose from an idea?
Answer: Yes, the idea of rising above hatred. These were the Jews.
Question: Did other nations also join it? Was it so composed?
Answer: Yes, gradually a collection of people gathered who called themselves Yehudim, from the word “Yehud—connection. And then they called themselves Israel, from the direction of movement toward the Creator—IsraEl. “Isra” means directly (straight to). “El” means the Creator, that is, directly to the Creator. And thus the whole story began to develop around them.
Chapter Four—And the Nation Began
Question: So, the Jews appeared. As you know, they appeared in Babylon and followed Abraham. It was his idea.
They entered the world and went to the Land of Israel where the Creator indicated to go. Along the way, they had to experience what slavery was, emerge from this slavery, and receive the Torah.
Please tell us about these stages: movement to Eretz Israel, slavery, and receiving the Torah. Why did you, the Creator, need to lead these people through all these sensations and states?
Answer: In order to bring them to full awareness and acquaintance with the Creator.
Slavery makes man dependent on man. And at the same time they must come to a state of only dependence on the Creator.
Question: That is, if I am a slave, I depend on the master. And did the Jews need to feel what that was? Precisely these people?
Answer: Yes. That is why they were in Egypt so they would feel that they depended on others and to get in touch with the supreme, with the Creator.
Question: Then they left Egypt and received the Torah. For what?
Answer: They received a clear list of instructions about what people should be like in order to rise even further to the Creator.
Question: So this was a list of laws, instructions. Did they demand it? Did they need to get this list?
Answer: They guessed that there was some kind of, if not a written list or a list carved on something, then at least a set of laws.
Question: Did they know that there was a set of laws?
Answer: Yes, of course. This is natural human behavior in society.
Question: What does it mean that the Torah was given to them?
Answer: Through several people, the knowledge was received that one must live exactly according to this code, to this principle. And they accepted it and moved toward the land of Israel.
Chapter Five—Temples Rise and Fall
Comment: The Jews entered the land of Israel, in which seven nations already lived. They seized this land, built a country and its capital, Jerusalem. King David, King Solomon—all these are well-known stories.
My Response: In principle, there was a capital. There was Jerusalem.
Question: Yes, that is, they conquered Jerusalem and made it their capital. Temples were built: the First and Second Temples. It is said, by the way, that the time of the Temple was the happiest time both for the Jews and for the world. But the Temples were destroyed.
What was the Creator’s intention? After all, the Temples were built at the height of love for one’s neighbor, at the height of this whole idea.
Answer: In a continuous struggle with oneself. Thus, they still developed and moved forward.
Question: Let them conquer the land, give them a capital, build temples and suddenly start destroying them! For what?
Answer: Building and destroying is generally the only principle of moving forward. It is impossible to move forward without destroying the old. We can see this from the time of the first king, King David, who fought for 40 years.
Question: Such a pearl was built. It may have been a struggle, but it was built. Temples were built. Why did You need to destroy them? Let everyone, as You said, begin to be like this; everyone began to build temples for themselves. After all, what You wanted had already been done.
Answer: Yes, but the principles of the existence of people in this state were, in general, built on love your neighbor. And in other nations it was on the terms of the reign of some family.
Comment: I see. It was, on the contrary, on other terms: I rule over others. Well, that’s good. Let them start to be like Jews.
You said that these people included the idea of love, and all nations had to become like these people, little by little. Why not…?
My Response: How could they perceive this idea?
Question: So could they not accept this idea? They were not able to look and perceive that “Oh, we want to live like this.” They were not able to?
Answer: No, this is all very difficult.
Chapter Six—Exile, For What?
Question: What happened is what happened. The Second Temple was destroyed, the Roman Empire began to rule, cleared this area, and the Jews were sent into exile for 2,000 years. The world at this time was pagan, one might say barbaric, with wars and the same thing, hatred.
Why was it conceived by the upper force to scatter the Jews, to lead the Jews through the world? They had their own state, and now they were led through the world.
Answer: It was to absorb this idea of monotheism, love your neighbor as yourself, and so on, so that all of this can gradually come closer, enter, and take root in all of humanity.
Question: So You say that when there were temples and humanity saw that there were temples there, it could not perceive it. And was it necessary to destroy the temples in order to let the entire mass of people, Jews, through humanity? So that they would bring this idea there?
Answer: Yes.
Question: How did they carry it? There is a record in them that there were temples? Was there such a law among the Jews? How did they carry it?
Answer: When people mixed with each other, some kind of connections were formed. And the Jews began to create the Bible and their own books. And these books and this teaching gradually penetrated into other nations and took on all sorts of other forms in them. Those who, in principle, were perhaps far from ideals.
Question: Are You now hinting at the emergence of religions and spiritual movements?
Answer: Yes, of course. That is why.
In principle, other nations passed through this instruction, the Torah, and gradually became closer to the ideals of human love, connection, rapprochement, and so on.
Question: But did these religions still correspond to the characters of the nations?
Answer: Of course. We could see it.
Comment: But the source was the instruction, the Torah. The commandments were the source.
My Response: But they didn’t deny it; it was natural.
Question: No, no one denied it, everyone referred to this source. And was this the Creator’s idea?
Answer: Of course. Today, the whole world has, of course, altered all the conventions of the Torah to suit itself, but somehow it still more or less orients itself according to them.
Chapter Seven—Hatred and Expulsion of the Jews
Question: Jews would enter a certain country, begin to settle there, and lived in their own community, even tried to assimilate, or did not. The most famous period was the Middle Ages. This was Spain, and at a later time, Poland and Germany.
Why did the Creator need to lead the Jews through the nations, so that they would not be loved, so that they would be kicked out, so that all this would happen? To take the best from these people, for example? But why were they always being persecuted somewhere?
Answer: Yes, this is a very serious question.
Because according to human perception and human nature, hatred is perceived faster and closer than good relationships. It turns out that if you want some of your principles and rules to be internalized, they must go through rejection and hatred.
Question: Do You think resistance and hatred is first? No matter how high and good an idea is, at first I hate it? Why don’t I feel like this would be good for me?
Answer: Because everything comes from egoism. So there is nothing you can do. That is, human egoism began to resist this idea. And since the bearers of this idea were the Jews, they suffered from it.
Question: How did they justify the Creator, may I ask You? Burned in public squares, killed by hundreds of thousands—how did they hold up?!
Answer: What were they supposed to do?
Comment: They remained people who believed and had the Torah.
My Response: This is where it becomes clear how the Creator held them. On the one hand, hatred, on the other hand, strengthening of faith.
Comment: I understand the connection when they beat you and you stop believing. This is a direct connection. But here, on the contrary, they beat you, they burn you, and they kill you, but you believe, believe and carry this standard.
My Response: It is all the Creator.
Chapter Eight—Catastrophe, Creation of Their Own State
Question: So little by little we approached the Second World War. The Catastrophe of European Jewry. On the one hand, this was a huge tragedy, naturally. On the other hand was the push for the creation of the state of Israel.
It is known that the great Kabbalists Baal HaSulam and Rav Kook accepted this state. What did this mean for the world—the creation of this small dot, barely visible on the map—the State of Israel?
Answer: It doesn’t matter that it’s a small dot. The main thing was that this was again an indication in the world that this was the spiritual center of the world.
Question: So the world felt it?
Answer: Yes.
Question: And this strange vote at the UN. Was all this in general the feeling of the world that this place should be created?
Answer: They raised their hands and created it. I think it was done instinctively from above.
Question: But did the world need this place? And again it became a place of struggle and clash.
Answer: Naturally.
Chapter Nine—The Central Problem of the World
Question: Almost immediately with the creation of a state, wars began the next day. And these wars were for the existence of the state. That is, the Jews were fighting so that they had the state of Israel.
Why did the Creator not give the Jews this piece of land and let them live? Why was this place becoming almost the central problem of the world?
Answer: According to the state at that time, the opposition between the Jews was such that they naturally created hatred of the surrounding nations toward Israel.
When they clashed with each other, the Jews themselves aroused hatred from outside nations.
Comment: As You say: “We won’t be able to live in peace as long as we hate each other.”
My Response: Yes. We ourselves create such hatred between us. And by doing this we call upon ourselves the corresponding external forces.
Question: So, do you think that it was impossible for Jews to live here peacefully?
Answer: No! They could not live peacefully among themselves! They argued with each other all the time. This is your synagogue, this is mine! These are the left, these are the right, these are the Moroccans, and these are the Yemenis. And so on.
Comment: But you said that this was a people in which an idea lived. These people were coming with this idea.
My Response: These were people who were not yet ready for this idea. They were not ready to rise above themselves, above universal egoism.
Chapter Ten—It Is Not Simple
Question: This war, which began on October 7, 2023, is the murder of Jews, barbaric and terrible. Please tell me, can it become some kind of turning point in the life of Israel and the world?
Answer: I don’t know. It all depends on how the Creator wants it.
I’ll be honest. I do not see forces in Israel itself that can change it. We hate each other; we are in constant disputes within society.
Question: So do we have to understand this? Is this what should come into us?
Answer: Yes. This problem still remains. Look what happened before the war. Where were all the generals?! Where were all the border guards who cleared the way for all the Arab crowds?! And so on. What is it?! This speaks of the general demoralization of society.
Question: After all, we started with the fact that 4,000 years ago a nation was created who followed an idea. They passed through time, passed through countries, came here, and as you say, continue to hate each other and so on.
Please tell me, when will this point work, what is this idea that these people followed? After all, it exists somewhere! How to grab onto this point?
Answer: That is not known yet. I’m not pessimistic. I just look ahead and do not see this point.
Question: The great Kabbalist Baal HaSulam said that a nuclear third and fourth world war are possible; do you suddenly feel that this is possible?
Answer: I agree with that, yes.
Question: If yes, then what is all this for?
Answer: So that, in the end, Jews and all humanity as a whole will realize the need for a complete correction from egoism, an ascent above this hatred.
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From KabTV’s “News with Dr. Michael Laitman” 11/2/23
Related Material:
The History Of The Jewish People
The Destruction Of The Temple: Do Not Despise The Fallen
Under The Rule Of The Nations
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Question: The spiritual development of the State of Israel and the connection of the country of Israel with the whole world can be divided into five stages.
