My Response: True.
Question: Today, logic has led us from point A to point B. And what do we see? How can you use your imagination to leap over this impasse?
Answer: If we come from one point to another with the help of logic, then we come to the same point, only we dig even bury ourselves in it even more with the help of our logic.
Question: And imagination? How do we jump out of this state?
Answer: Imagine the state opposite to the one we are in.
Comment: Now we are in some kind of confusion, in suffering.
My Response: Imagine a state of clarity and joy. And try to create it. Not based on your past state but just out of the blue.
Question: Just create happiness out of nowhere? Is it possible?
Answer: If it is not possible, then why do we exist? And if it is possible, then only in that way. You cannot create happiness out of misery. Out of misery, you only have to understand that you need to achieve happiness.
Question: So you are saying that only the effort to achieve happiness is required of us? We need to build this happy state and try to achieve it?
Question: Utopians once aspired to this. What is the difference between what you propose and those utopians and The City of the Sun?
Answer: Utopians did not rely on the real nature we are in, on the egoism we exist in. They believed that they can just take it, pick it up, and simply want to do it.
Question: Just take and place a person in The City of the Sun?
Answer: And you must build this city of the Sun yourself! It does not grow out of our fantasies.
Question: When you say that you need to imagine happiness, what stages do you need to go through?
Answer: I mean that we must realize through standing on all the sufferings there are and relying on them, that we can do something opposite to them only if we change our relationship to each other. And so we need to start looking into our upbringing—personal, social, group, family—at all levels.
Question: And this is what you call building a happy society?
Answer: Of course. It depends only on the attitude of people toward each other. Nothing more.
Question: To sum it up: you say that if I am now suffering, in pain, at a dead end, then to get out of it I need to imagine, visualize…?
Answer: The opposite state. The reason for suffering is in my “I,” in the fact that we are opposite to each other, we hate, dislike, repel, and want to profit from each other. If we want happiness, we must free ourselves from self-interest and raise public interest instead.
I must wish happiness for everyone and then I will also exist in all this happiness.
From KabTV’s “News with Dr. Michael Laitman” 4/22/21