Question: A samurai came to a sage and asked him whether hell and heaven really exist.

“Who are you?” asked the sage.

“A samurai,” the warrior.

“You are lying,” said the sage. “You have the face of a beggar.”

The samurai drew his sword. The sage said:

“This is how the gates of hell open.”

The samurai understood and, bowing, put away his sword.

“And that is how the gates of heaven open,” said the sage.

My question is this: Is it possible not to draw the sword in response to any insult? In other words, is it possible to not to go through hell before reaching heaven?

Answer: It is very difficult. I think it is practically impossible.

Comment: So, the whole road to heaven is paved through the hell you go through. That is a serious matter.

My Response: What else can you do? This is how we were created. This is our incomparable egoism.

Question: In principle, it does not forgive anyone; it must immediately respond?

Answer: Yes. The first thought is to draw the sword, because that is how we are. There is no escaping it.

We cannot simply flip a switch so that good would govern us. Because “I created evil,” these are, in a sense, the words of the Creator. “And I created the Torah for its correction.” But initially there is evil.

Question: Why was evil created in the beginning?

Answer: It was so that a person could become aware of his nature from one extreme to the other, from evil to good. To experience both manifestations fully, and then incline toward good. Only then, will good govern the person over evil. But one cannot exist without the other.

Question: So, one way or another, we enter heaven through hell?

Answer: Of course.

Question: Then in what is the wisdom of a person? We say, “A person is wise.”

Answer: It means seeing in advance, without having to go through hell at every step, that you need to act differently. But this is acquired through very great trials and experience.

Question: So the experience of constant hell leads a person to become wiser?

Answer: Of course, like that Japanese sage.

Comment: You often speak of a person becoming resigned. You have even used the words “submission,” “annulment,” and “self-annulment.”

My Response: These are all very complex states that require a journey through hell. I do not believe that a person can overcome themselves in advance without extensive experience. It is impossible.

Question: You are talking about rising above one’s egoism. What does it mean to rise above egoism?

Answer: It means sensing egoism in all its possible manifestations in life, even in nature, and constantly rising above it. Bowing one’s head, that is, reducing one’s egoism, reducing it, belittling it, suppressing it.

Question: If one constantly performs this exercise of suppressing one’s egoism and annulling oneself, will it help?

My Answer: I do not think this exercise is even possible; it is philosophy. It is possible only through gradual training within a suitable society. There must an environment where everyone wants this. They cannot do it, but they want to.

Question: Do they feel that they cannot do it?

Answer: Of course. There must be a recognition of evil. And then, all together, facing one another and helping each other, they can crawl out of that stinking pit.

Question: Please tell me, who does the responsibility for climbing out of there actually fall on? On us?

Answer: On us! Ask, plead, think, speak, and show examples to one another, and thus act. And each one whose egoism is greater, they naturally rise higher. In general, this is the work.

Question: If this work is carried on within a society people who want to transcend their egoism, does it help others?

Answer: It helps others not merely by example. It does not even matter whether they see it or not. Because this is a force of nature, and in this way, it is added to the common equation of nature and first outweighs egoism, and then altruism.

Question: In principle, you are saying that if this group manages to rise above itself, it will begin to lift everyone else along with it?

Answer: Yes. We must act.
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From KabTV’s “News with Dr. Michael Laitman,” 6/11/23

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